To anybody who minimizes the importance of a good wheel:

I hope you never feel the heartbreak of picking all the winning numbers, yet not winning more than a 3/6 because your wheel is a piece of crap.

Now that would be crap and we need to cut that out.

definately. I've done it twice already & that's 2 times too many.
If you {anybody) wants to see how good your wheeling sw is, create a set with the last winning #s in them, and then run it thru your sw. When I tried this with Gail Howard's wheels I was totally sickened by how those wheels missed the JPs over and over. Live & learn.

Please remember: It's not the wheel that's crap, it's the population.


Do you realize that there are FACT(49) or
60828186403426800000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000
ways to populate a 49 number wheel?
There's no way you can test 'em all, it's all in random selections.

When you say populate I assume you mean the order in which you put the #s into the wheel? Also called *loading*? I put all the 6 winning #s in the highest hitting positions, got a 3/6. and then tested it in about 20 different set ups as well and best was 4/6. My point was that something was terribly wrong since I put in the 6 winning #s and didn't get a JP. & the software makes all sorts of claims..... THAT was enough to drive me crazy. & Of course, as a human, I refuse to accept the blame myself, prefering instead, to blame the equipment.

Although, I'm sure you'd agree that not all wheels are created equally. If I had a choice between a wheel that would give me a JP or a 100% guaranteed 3/6 win, I'd take the JP wheel. Who wouldn't? I don't give a flying monkey about wheel guarantees, I want to win millions from having the jackpot winning combination on my ticket. I think some wheel makers use the smaller guarantees to make people think they're getting somewhere, but they're not. {getting closer to winning big) I have an inkling that it's all a conspiracy.

But, realistically, I've heard others complain that Gail Howards wheeling software isn't as good as some others you can get. I prefer something I can use filters with. & hers doesn't have that.

Rebeckah,

You're so right.
Of course we're not in it for the 3/6!
Anyone who says different is either a liar or on the wrong forum.

Come to think of it: Who'd give a rat's behind about the $10 you're guaranteed to win after spending $163?
Invest $153 with high quality, carefully filtered combinations instead. If you win absolutely nothing, the result is exactly the same.

Regards,
Goswinus

Oh, by the way: I've found four different populations of the "world champion" that scored a 6+0 twice throughout the entire history! Four (other) populations have hit 5+1 3 times.
Mr. Saliu's statement about the "bad performance" of this wheel should be considered "bad judgment"

AHHHH!!!!!

The details are at:[url]http://lottery.merseyworld.com/Perms.html[/url]

This is an "official" UK Lotto site. Ypo can backtest the sytem online.


Barge

Goswinus:

Quote:
“Do you realize that there are FACT(49) or
60828186403426800000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000”

The correct method is not factorial, but arrangements:
A(49,6) = 10,068,347,520

Use my freeware FORMULA.EXE for the calculations.

Anyway, the amount of possible unique systems is still huge, isn’t it?
Again, you can use freeware to “shuffle” your picks; in this case, you’ll randomly arrange the 49 numbers.
SHUFFLE.EXE (by Ion Saliu)
CooLRevGUI.EXE (by Cristiano Lopes).
Available freely from:
[url]http://www.saliu.com/infodown.html[/url]

When you have a randomized set of picks that you like (the more shuffles, the better), then use freeware again to replace the theoretical numbers in the wheel by your picks:
FillWheel.exe (by Ion Saliu)

The analysis of the 163-line wheel can be found at:
[url]http://www.saliu.com/bbs/messages/11.html[/url]

I’ll post soon one more thing on wheeling. This time, take any input file of lotto-6 combinations and allow only the lines that offer ‘3 of 6’, ‘4 of 6’, and ‘5 of 6’. Take also randomly an equal number of lines from the input file. See if the wheeled or the randomized set offers better winnings.

Populate alright, but there are out-of-control ways to populate!

Ion Saliu

Ion,

Sorry, but you're wrong and I can tell you why.

That formula provides the total number of combinations of 6 numbers picked from a pool of 49 where the order of the numbers within each combination is significant.
In other words 01-02-03-04-05-06 and 06-05-04-03-02-01 are different permutations as opposed to being the same combinations.
For those interested: In Excel this function is called PERMUT.

However...
While populating this particular 49 number wheel, you have 49 positions to fill, and 49 numbers to select from.
That we somehow group this (re-arranged) sequence into combinations of 6 has got nothing to do with it.
This means you pick 49 numbers from a pool of 49 where each number can appear on each position.
So, the formula is PERMUT(49,49), which in fact is the same as FACT(49).

To be perfectly accurate, the formula needs a little correction to also apply to wheels that have common numbers on every line of the wheel.
For example:
01-02-03-04-05-06
01-02-03-04-05-07
In this 7 number both lines share 5 common numbers.

But, since the "world champion" doesn't have this, FACT(49) shows the correct number.

I guess we'll be expecting an update of FORMULA.EXE in the near future...

But enough with that, let’s move on to the next comment.

I'm not religious about wheels, but your statements on them are a little unusual, to say the least.

On your website, you state: Data analyses show beyond doubt that the lotto wheels are beaten by random play.

You shouldn't make this assumption after testing just one population of a wheel. I can show you at least 1 population of the "world champion" which has hit the jackpot twice in the UK lotto history.
That beats (beyond doubt) your random wheel by far, don't you agree?

Kind regards,
Goswinus

Hey Goswinus,

I miss Amsterdam a lot


Random play is far worse than wheels....I am the example here..
Wife only matched 4/6 once since 1995 til Today..
Myself, I matched 4/6 at least 6 times plus Tons of 3/6 playing FW or AW's....Knowing that I started playing wheels in Aug 2000 !!

Well of course it is a shame to call himself a mathematician and go straight to such generalisation statements....but if we always use only Ion's numbers ...we have to admit that Ion has a point here...And I would agree random might be better in this case...The problem is that I have never and I am not using anything from that salesman...So I'll stick to free wheels...real free wheels that are not used as a platform to try selling anything else...to some fat .....

Wheeling is a waste of time if you are after the jackpot. Wheeling is ok for the third prize(ie hitting 3 numbers) except it costs you more than you win. When we play the lottery we are after one thing, the Jackpot, no more no less. If you want to wheel then you must produce perfect wheels. For example wheeling 12 numbers gives you a perfect wheel of 924 combinations. There are two snags her. 1. to get 12 numbers out of 49 is a one in fifteen thousand chance. 2. Assuming you got the 12 numbers you would have to mark off 924 forms. As far as I can see your only chance(unless you have a lifespan of 300 000 years) is Ion Saliu's Lotwon 632. I use it it and break even, that is I don't lose money(very important and as yet have not hit the jackpot).632 is hard work and you have to put considerable amount of time studying it and experimenting and it helps to have a knowledge of elementary set theory. All the best in you wheeling efforts but my best advice is don't.

The only way to reduce the odds in Lotto is to buy more
tickets.

Random play reduces the odds...but wheeling reduces
the odds AND INCREASES THE PAYOFF by winning multiple
lower tier prizes.

A full wheel of 8 numbers and 28 tickets has EXACTLY
the same probability of winning the Jackpot as 28 random
plays.

However, its my advice to cover AT LEAST 30% of the
game field with a good abbreviated wheel.

Rob